"The one who set the mold for young, immensely popular ‘celebrities’ whose entire persona is based on the idea that if you manage to get your image broadcast virtually 24 hours a day, no one will notice that you actually have no credible attributes to validate your status as a ‘star,’"

You mean Elvis?  I agree.

@LeMepris - Elvis may have gone out as a bloated and drug addled shadow of his former self, but if you think you'd be listening to rock music if it weren't for him, you must be joking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-_6BUtyWK4&feature=related

Right up to the end, the guy's voice was supernatural.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E32SCqI_3sE

He had more talent in his hair than all the Britney Spears' and Miley Cyrus' in the universe times ten thousand.

Belie' dat bro.

"Elvis may have gone out as a bloated and drug addled shadow of his former self, but if you think you'd be listening to rock music if it weren't for him, you must be joking."

Elvis's role in popularizing and developing the early history of rock n' roll tends to be overstated because he was the first one to be noticed by squares.  He offered little more than Chuck Berryisms with the sexuality toned down.

"He had more talent in his hair than all the Britney Spears' and Miley Cyrus' in the universe times ten thousand."

Maybe, but if you think his talent was the primary reason for his success and legacy, then YOU must be joking.

"Interesting; many people think the Rolling Stones, specifically Keith Richards, ripped Chuck off blind"

No doubt, especially in their earlier career.

"they still get called the Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World, despite offering little more than long hair, spastic dancing and low class English accents."

They also offered the most potent and seamless blend of American musical styles that had been seen in rock n' roll until that date.  At the same time the Beatles were expanding the consciousness of rock music, and the Velvet Underground were expanding the social reach, the Stones expanded the form to incorporate the blues, folk music, and country, shaming an entire nation by one upping them on their own musical heritage.  To say they offered little more than spastic dancing and low class English accents is intentionally dismissive.

"Once upon a time it was a dynamic combination that gave the world the likes of Smoky Robinson, The Supremes, Jackie Wilson, Otis Redding, Jimmi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Van Morrison, The Beatles, Al Green, Marvin Gaye, Minnie Ripperton, Ann and Nancy Wilson, Led Zeppelin and so many more timeless artists that continue to put today's vain, shortlived and interchangeable acts to shame."

I was mostly being snarky in my previous comment, but my main point is that Elvis was just as manufactured, commercial, and phony a property as any pop star you rally against.  The Motown artists you mentioned were products of an extremely cynical marketing plan and a musical assembly line, just like today's pop stars.  They seem more "authentic" nowadays because they were designed to seem more authentic.  But again, they were just as manufactured.

Also, lol @ Ann and Nancy Wilson.

"Try telling that to legions of unknown Black musicians who had been playing those same Rhythm and Blues for years in the Mississippi Delta before any White, English lads discovered the genre."

I'm aware of the heritage of American folk music.  The Stones just shamed our nation by doing it one better.

"Again, I don't recommend you state that so emphatically below the Macon/Dixon line; you'll get run out of town on a rail."

I would be in constant danger of a lynching in most Southern states anyways, for far more reasons than daring to question cultural mythology.

"my point is that music, like many art forms, has a long and sordid history of stealing licks and building something new and accessible from someone or somewhere else that few people had ever heard of, with many an unsung originator forced to watch in obscurity as someone else 'borrowed' their material or style and becomes rich and famous without ever having to create 'the sound' on their own.  The difference, especially in the 1950's and '60's, often came down to which artists were Black and which were White."

No doubt. 

"Dude, before Elvis, the only other 'pop stars' were Rudy Vallee, Bing Crosby and then Frank Sinatra.  Of course Elvis was marketed, but until he came along, there was no such thing as record executives sitting in a boardroom looking at 8' X 10' headshots and trying to find the 'next' Elvis.  Today, every music label on Earth has a whole division dedicated to putting together acts whose sole purpose is to sell records, not make music, a la the Backstreet Boys, The Spice Girls, the Pussycat Dolls etc, whose main talents are being attractive and easily manipulated, and none of which were even a band before a bunch of suits decided they looked good together and whose voices didn't overpower one another."

I'm not sure what you're point is here, all I can really say in response is that notions of "talent" are pure projections of ego.  The marketing, image, and "talent" (an extremely dubious notion if there ever was one) of a musician are complete non issues to those concerned with the actual sound being produced.

"Gordy had a core belief that their talent would allow other Black artists (who btw weren't exactly getting an equal amount of radio play as their White counterparts prior to Motown) to follow in their footsteps"

I have read enough books on Berry Gordy to be completely skeptical of any so called noble intentions the man may have ever claimed to posess.

"Really?  You might want to check these out and remember there was a time when singers and bands did their thing without pre-recorded dub tracks and multiple costume changes.."

I repeat: lol.

I think in your harping on the Backstreet Boys, Spice Girls, Hannah Montana, whatever, who are missing the fact that these were all created for and marketed towards children under the age of twelve.  If you wish to discuss the inanity of children's entertainment, do so, but it is disingenuous to pretend that these artists are somehow even playing the same game as the Beatles or whoever.

"nor would I call Rhythm and Blues folk music per se"

I would, and I would also consider rockabilly folk music, too, if you go by the definition of folk music as arising organically from cultural heritage.

"That WAS my point, talent today has been reduced to marketing and image and has almost nothing to do with producing music that even pretends to sound good, much less being direct result of output from the artist."

I don't disagree, but I think we've been there a lot longer than you do.

"It's all about looking good and making money.  You can't be so jaded as to think that artistic talent was or is meaningless?"

I'm just saying that "talent" is hard to define.  Making money is a talent, not everybody can do that.  In the case of manufactured pop music, one merely has to take a step back in the production line to see where the true talent lies (and there is a lot of artistically valid music made within the strict confines of mainstream pop music: your example of Motown for one, and a lot of the work of artists today who create backing tracks for the pop stars you decry.  Look at a lot of early tracks by the Neptunes for great examples of pure pop minimalism).

"Actually, I believe I am stating inherently that this is the problem with them; they are created and marketed for adolescents whose attention spans and appreciation for quality lasts about as long as a Tootsie Roll on a tanning bed."

So if an audience has no attention span or appreciation for beauty, then why should anyone waste their time trying to market beauty towards them? 

"Would that they were my friend; you can't have failed to notice that entertainment is increasingly geared to younger and younger audiences that seem to be in command of larger and larger amounts of incendiary income?"

The same thing happened at the dawn of the rock n' roll age, when teenagers were first seen as a demographic with their own buying power.  Adults and self proclaimed sophisticates of the time levied the same criticisms against rock n' roll that you now direct at teenage Disney pop.  We all know who was proven right on that one.

"This only feeds into the Bubble Gum mentality of producing entertainment that is as disposable as Kleenex, but without the utilitarian benefits."

There has been bubble gum entertainment as long as there have been human beings who were sufficiently evolved enough to want to be entertained.  Time inevitably seperates the wheat from the chaff (well, not always...), and I certainly don't think it's worth getting up in arms about.

"Really now, what's your beef with Heart?  I gots to know."

They are soul less seventies cock rock.  They are Foreigner.  They are Bad Company.  They are Styx.  And they proved it by Monster Ballad-ing it up in the eighties.  Yet somehow they are given a pass because they were females playing constipated Zeppelin riffs instead of males.

Fuck Heart.

@LeMepris - 'I'm just saying that "talent" is hard to define.'

I don't agree; personal taste aside, talent is something which should be apparent to even the least objective observer.  I may not care for Egon Schiele  vis a vis Johannes Vermeer, but there is not denying the inherent talent of either artist simply because one is more appealing than the other. BTW, I like both of them for vastly different reasons.

'So if an audience has no attention
span or appreciation for beauty, then why should anyone waste their
time trying to market beauty towards them? '' And they proved it by Monster Ballad-ing it up in the eighties. 'Who didn't?  I guess you never heard the Stones' 'UnderCover' album? 'Fuck Heart.'

I think we have both agreed on the rationale; to make money, which isn't a very solid foundation on which to pursue a career in an artistic forum, but then, that's not what we're talking about.

'The same thing happened at the dawn of the
rock n' roll age, when teenagers were first seen as a demographic with
their own buying power.  Adults and self proclaimed sophisticates of
the time levied the same criticisms against rock n' roll that you now
direct at teenage Disney pop.  We all know who was proven right on that
one.'

True, but then I don't think you're arguing that in 25 years time there will be a Britney Spears induction ceremony into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, are you?  Because there won't be.

'There has been bubble gum entertainment as
long as there have been human beings who were sufficiently evolved
enough to want to be entertained.'

Sadly, all too true, though not to the extent seen now.

'Time inevitably seperates the wheat
from the chaff (well, not always...), and I certainly don't think it's
worth getting up in arms about.'

I'm not; I wrote a satiric blog post about it, which we've been debating for several hours now; I might suggest that you're the one up in arms about it, but then the point of the piece was to elicit a response, so why the eff would I do that?

'Yet somehow they are given a pass because they were females playing constipated Zeppelin riffs instead of males.'

Whoa man, remember what I said about objectivity; you really are up in arms.

'Fuck Heart.'

Heart rocked, you don't even know; and I wish I could have.

Ann's killer voice and Nancy's chops can still kick the shit out of the Pussycat Dolls any day of the week.

Just because they don't appeal to you doesn't mean they aren't talented boss.

Britney Spears?  Not so much.

"'Who didn't?"

A lot of bands didn't.

"I guess you never heard the Stones' 'UnderCover' album?"

I kinda like to pretend that they all died in a train wreck sometime around 1979.

"True, but then I don't think you're arguing that in 25 years time there will be a Britney Spears induction ceremony into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, are you?  Because there won't be."

Maybe not.  I'll bet nobody thought Madonna would make it into the Hall twenty five years ago.

"Sadly, all too true, though not to the extent seen now."

I think this can be chalked up to the fact that we're a media saturated culture in all respects.  With 160,000,000,000,000+ channels of cable, there's a lot of airtime to be filled, and so more regional and marginal interests get gobbled up by the media machine, and quicker.  There's just as much good and bad now as there ever was.

"I might suggest that you're the one up in arms about it"

I'm up in arms about everything.  Don't use me as a barometer, I'll be dead of a heart attack by age thirty.

"Just because they don't appeal to you doesn't mean they aren't talented boss."

I never said they weren't talented.  Just that they suck.

"But even though I've grown up in Toronto since 1964, I'm Jamaican, so them skinny ass White boys just aren't my preferred sound."

You're Jamaican?  Score me some vintage Black Ark 45s and a zip of KB.  I'll pay you back with copious amounts of whatever your prefered cultural stereotype for pontificating white Midwestern snobs is. 

Vampires, twitter, miley cyrus, britney spears, reality shows, internet whores...ya it all bugs me, and shows just how selfish our culture is!!

that's a crazy looking cellphone! is that real?

@walkswithoneshoe - 'I had no idea girls on youtube were doing that...how did YOU figure that out?'

I....ummm......read....about it......

'Twitter is incredibly useful for marketing
and if you subscribe to the right people, there is no boring tweet.
There is so much cool art/information out there that Twitter can be
used to connect people to it.'

Perhaps, which only makes it that much more perplexing that people use it as an ongoing dialogue about every second of their day, which simply isn't that cool.

'You debated poorly on LeMepris' site. You
took a jump in logic by reading my statement and assuming things about
the way I am. My statement was not thought out and not sincere and I
was mostly joking.'

You might have said that instead of jumping to conclusions about me based on my comments of your post.

'I spent my teenage-hood on the internet,
debating about Christianity with 50-somethings (the rock-and-roll being
of the devil debate is STILL out there) and I regret every hour of it.'

Hmmm, did your parents know about that?  It sounds somewhat dangerous in that you may have interacted with a lot of creeps.  This is something that my younger brother, who has twin 14 year old girls, constantly monitors their use of the net to guard against.  You do seem to have navigated the perils however; Mazel Tov.

'I'd be a lot less lonely if I'd spent the time learning how to make friends.'

It's hard to imagine an attractive, intelligent and articulate young woman such as youself would be as lonely as you claim; I bet there are dozens of decent young Christians flirting with impure thoughts about you, but are too shy or insecure to approach you.  Although men are funny that way.  Most of us see a beautiful woman and instantly think we're not good enough for them, which only leaves many attractive women wondering why men don't approach them.  Must be the circle of life.

'I side with you on the Elvis debate. His
songs still stand up (even if he didn't write them) in a way that
Miley's and Spears' won't.'

E has a power all his own; TCB Momma.

'This generation looks at music WAY differently from your generation.'

No argument there.

'A producer of an album is like a director of a movie. She/he affects everything about it. '

I agree the producer can be instrumental in making the whole better from the sum of the parts, but it still requires good material and a good artist to make the final product work.

'These things that annoy you will become nostalgic for many in 20 years. '

Don't I know it, but as LeMepris has made clear, while you are looking back fondly from your forties, many in their twenties will be scoffing at your nostalgia and critically announcing that your tastes 'suck.'

'Isn't that gross to think about? But it's good in a way..'

Meh, it's simply the cynic of life.

'reality shows will be history. Or will they?'

My dear, from your lips to God's ear :)

BTW, I think your blog is cool; haven't commented because I didn't want you to think I was stalking you to lay any bad vibes your way.

“Seek peace, and pursue it."
     
         (Proverbs 34:14)

@Justice_Asylum - I hope not; it would be pretty embarrassing to surf penile enhancement sites on that puppy.

Or.....so I've heard.....from a friend.....

 though the examples of your argument are only the tip of the ice-berg of this heavily technologized, globalized age, you argue well (:
I like your style